You are here

Tensed , Confused , What is next ?

Hi

I am a newly diagnosed CML patient ( 44 Male ) . I did not have any symptoms like many of our fellow CML patients. My test details at the time of diagnosis :

WBC : 22500
Platlet : 1.1 Million
HBC : 14.5
RBC : 4.5
Baso : 3.5
No Leukemia cells , No blast
No Spleen enlargement

BMT : No PH+, No blast , Baso 4 , No immature White Cells

FISH : BCR / ABL = 56 %
RT -PCR ( t(9:22) (q34;q11) : 11.662 % ( ELN guidelines ) ( after one week from the date of diagnose and one week on Gleevec )

Initial Gleevec response is good. Managed to achieve CHR in 19 days.

I am totally shocked. Can some one help me to digest these numbers ? I am a De Novo ( very early ) CP CML ? What are my chances of survival ?

My three month PCR is on Feb last . I am so much worried and not letting sleep !

Regards

Thomas

Hello Thomas

And welcome to the club no one chooses to join.

At first glance, my impression is your results do show perhaps a comparatively low level of disease at diagnosis. I don't quite follow the platelet result - ie whether it is higher or lower than normal (I usually see these reported as normal range 150-400/450 x 10 (to the power 9) /L). but your white cells and basophils seem raised at diagnosis although not hugely so. The absence of PH chromosome by BMB is odd as it is that which is the usual confirmation of CML. However, while it is possible for there to be PH negative CML given you had 56% BCR/ABL by FISH what I say assumes PH positive CML and something maybe didn't go quite right with the BMB (which happened to me second time - they couldn't get the cytogenic testing to work).

56% at diagnosis is not particularly high but it is seen. As is diagnosis without symptoms. I think that's quite common - in my own case, I had no symptoms and was diagnosed by chance. I was 83% BCR/ABL (by FISH and PCR and that also agreed with my BMB). My white count was even lower than yours but my platelets were 1140 (ie about three times normal) and that's not too common.

Your response so far also looks rather like mine - I was CHR in 3 weeks. And your PCR is "down" to 11.7% after a week. I didn't have results for PCR at a week but I was under 10% very quickly and under 0.1% at 3 months. And undetectable in less than 6 months. That was over 4 years ago and I have remained there ever since.

So, on the face of it your response looks excellent so far. It is very worrying but try to be assured that most people do very well and you look to have made an excellent start. I would ask more about your PH count at diagnosis though to make sure you were in fact PH positive since PH negative CML isn't something I really know much about, and it's rare.

Good luck

Richard

Hi Richard

Thank you for your comments. I am feeling better already. My doctor does not believe in PH-ve bcr / abl positive CML . He says it is because of poor sample. ( He admits that there is PH -ve / ablbcr negative CML ).

Richard is it true that we can expect a normal life span . say another 25-30 years ( I am 44 now ) ? . Ones we reach MMR ( i hope I will ) chances of drug resistance is zero ?

Regards

Thomas

Thomas

I never say never, and I remain a CML patient (and will be forever as far as I know) but I suspect I won't die of CML. I believe that to be true of the vast majority of CML patients nowadays. I used to worry about the outlook but now I just get on with my life, although I take nothing for granted and make sure I try to get everything into perspective. I have changed the way I approach life but thats probably because CML has made me appreciate it, and the things that matter to me in it, more than I did before. I was 42 when diagnosed, with 2 young children, so I understand your feelings about the future.

And yes, as far as I know, MMR is a very safe place to be. No one yet knows exactly how safe (the longest anyone has been on imatinib is about 15 years), but all the signs are excellent.

Hope that helps. Good luck and I hope your excellent response continues - I am sure it will.

Richard

Hello Thomas and welcome,

It is understandable that you feel the way you do... it is a common experience at diagnosis. However, given your test results it looks to me like you will be one of the majority good responders to TKI therapy. So you can be fairly certain, even at this early stage in your therapy, that you will live out your normal life span (whatever that may be) ... in other words you will live with CML rather than die from it.

I have included a pre-publication snapshot from our booklet about q RT-PCR in the hope that it might help answer some of you questions... it does underline what your doctor has already told you- i.e a poor sample. It also might be that q RT-PCR testing at diagnosis is not as accurate in assessing the disease level as cytogenetics. As your PH positive cells reduce (even if they cannot be detected under the microscope) to under 10% q RT-PCR testing will be very accurate and will take the place of cytogenetics etc.

I hope this adds to the reassurance that Richard has given you.

best wishes,
Sandy

See below for a brief explanation:

"In approximately 95% of cases, the Ph chromosome will be detected by routine cytogenetic analysis. However, in approximately half of the remaining 5% of cases, the Ph chromosome may not be visible, but the BCR-ABL1 fusion gene is identified by using molecular testing by PCR. For simplicity, any disease that contains the BCR-ABL1 fusion gene is referred to as Ph+ CML.

It has been shown that the BCR-ABL1 fusion gene is the single, definitive cause of Ph+ CML, and remains the key abnormality throughout the chronic phase (CP) of the disease.

Quantitative Reverse Transcriptase PCR (q RT-PCR)

A diagnosis, virtually every white cell in a blood or marrow sample tested will be leukaemic (Ph+) so the result should, in theory, be 100% Ph+. However, because there are higher levels of Ph+ cells present at diagnosis, the q RT-PCR test lacks accuracy at this stage. Thus results may vary between 50 and 100%.

A good diagnostic sample will contain equal amounts of transcripts of both a control gene and the abnormal gene (BCR-ABL1). The lowest acceptable level for a control gene in any one sample is 10,000 copies.
The result will show a relative proportion (expressed as a percentage) of how many leukaemic (BCR-ABL1 positive) cells are present over the total number of cells analysed in the blood sample.

Since the introduction of targeted therapy, it is agreed that at least in chronic phase CML, if an effective suppression of cells containing the BCR-ABL1 gene is reduced to the molecular level, the risk of disease progression is reduced significantly."

© CML Support Group 2014

Hi

Thank you very much for your posting. It is so encouraging . I did sleep well yesterday. Your comments are in line with my outspoken doctor explained to me . I spoke to him yesterday after seeing your post and he mentioned me the following :

1. He asked to watch out for new developments ( SL 401, T cell immunity medicine , RAD 52 ) . No clue what they are ....

2. He says there are combined therapy trails that are in final stages

3. He is hoping for a stemcell targeting medicine by 2016.

Perhaps he wants to make a happy for the time being . But let us hope that researchers will give us more " breaking news" in coming years

Regards

Thomasd