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pcr < 10% and not in MCyR. is it possible?

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I was wondering: i thought that when you get below the 10% pcr you must be in a MCyR. I was below 10% in various tests since my 6 months, but my marrow was at 40% PH+. Is this possible? is it possible a mistake in the cytogenetic test? I'm probably moving to tasigna 800 mg in the next few weeks. Thanks in advance!

Hi Lucas,
CML is concentrated in your marrow and so it will always give you a higher rate compared to a blood test. You can only compare your BMBs to your BMBs and your blood tests to your blood tests. I only had two BMBs so when I was/am following my results they are based upon my blood test results.

Thanks for the insight gerry, but i was about the relation between pcr and cytogenetics. like: if you have a less than 10% pcr, it correlates with 35% or less ph+ cells in the marrow. one of my doctors was thinking about a re-test, but i preferred to change medications. i'm one week into tasigna and so far so good.
cheers!

Hi Lucas,

I am not sure that your example is right. It is my understanding that at the 3 months mark, to be on track with the ELNet recommendations for an optimal response you need to have either less than 10% BCR-ABL1 by PCR
OR less than
35% PH positive cells by cytogenetics/FISH.
I don't think this means that 10% by PCR correlates to 35% Ph+ivity.

The problem with PCR testing is the sensitivity of the methodology used in a particular lab. If you have a PCR result of <10% from a blood sample then it should, more or less, be reflected in cytogenetics testing taken from a sample in the marrow- if there is a discrepancy between the two kinds of tests then further investigation or a retest would be necessary.
I think you did right to change TKI. I hope you do well with nilotinib and your next PCR test shows a drop in BCR-ABL1.... ;o)

Sandy

thanks, sandy.

I actually did a retest. i was 6.8% IS at 6 months from my local lab. my 7 month pcr - from that same lab (only 7.500 samples of the control gene) -was 2.9% IS (it seems a big drop for less than one month, what made me think it was not a reliable result). 10 days after i went to the best lab in country -they use more samples of the control gene (200.000), another control gene and another method, etc. etc. - and the result was 6% (so it was into the error margin of the test and less than the 6 month's pcr). Somehow my pcr is less than 10% but i have a large number of PH+ cells in my marrow (a friend of mine said that the lab that runs my cytogenetics belongs to novartis, but i don't think that's the case). I know that the BMA is more accurate and even if it was a mistake (i heard about some people who had a MMR but because a blip had one ph+ cell in the bma and than it dissapear) i think i did right changing my treatment. I think i'll get much better results now and i'm feeling ok with tasigna :)

Hi Lucas,
Thought you were comparing BMB results with your blood tests.

OBJECTIVE: To compare the sensitivity and specificity of Real Time Polymerase Chain Reaction (RT-PCR) with conventional cytogenetics in diagnosis of chronic myeloid leukemia.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24613116

Good luck with Tasigna.

Thanks, gerry! The paper you send me talk about pcr x cytogenetics at diagnosis. i don't know if we can apply this after DX. As you can see, all my results were less than 10%, even the test i had in the most sensitive lab in brazil (i know a guy who is pcru in every lab but when he had tests in this particular lab his pcr runs abou MR4, mr4.5). Well, i'm on tasigna. it's gonna work :)

Cheers!

Lucas, you can safely ignore any result that has less than 10,000 copies of a control gene (BCR; ABL1 etc)

I am sure you will do well on tasigna-

Sandy

unfortunately not many labs run pcr tests with this profile. i think i'll use this most sensitive lab for a long time. it's far from my city (3 hours by plane), but i think that's the only way i can get reliable results. there's a lab in other city that runs the test with only 2.000 samples of the control gene. not many options. I live in a cit with 3 million people and none pcr machine. all my test are send to a city far away from here. Thanks again, sandy. you're greeeeat!